Monday, May 10, 2010

John Piper Video: Why is homosexuality wrong?

Last night I read a bunch of John Piper's blog and came across this video that was just posted in May 2010. Check it out if you have not seen it. (You can read the transcript here)



Its only a short 7 minute video but I just really liked how he laid out his beliefs on this issue and how he seemed very empathetic with what those of us who struggle with SSA go through. Plus I just liked hearing how he does not see it as the worst of all sins like alot of churches seem to but as "a part of a brokenness that I share." I have never read his famous book "Desiring God" but have heard great things about it. I think I am going to order it soon!

Anyways there are a bunch of great things on John Piper's blog if you have never checked it out. Not just on homosexuality but on tons of topics.

8 comments:

  1. Do you know what makes me angry, when people equate my homosexuality with a mental disorder or perversion of desire that equates to drugs or alcohol. To understand why, let me tell you my story.

    I have always known I was gay. I remember distinctly at 6 years old having some sort of sexual attraction to a shirtless man I saw on a magazine. At the time, I didn't know that my desires were social taboos that would plague me for the rest of my life.

    Sexual orientation is different from other temptations. It is innate within you. In my case, I desired something before I even really knew what I was desiring in the first place. I wasn't gay because I wanted to be cool or impress people, as with drugs or alcohol, or because I had traumatic life experiences, as with rapists and murderers, (my home was actually a Christian home with a loving family) I was gay because I was gay. That's it.

    I live in the South, heavy Bible belt South, where some people believe that gay people should be stoned just like in the Bible. As a result, I think it is self-explanatory that I am and will remain for some time, closeted. I have never acted on my desires, nor ever had any sort of sexual experience with anyone, male or female. But for me, it doesn't matter. All I have heard is that God hates me and wants to send me to hell because of something I cannot control.

    People make fun of me without knowing it. They call gay people "queer" and "disordered" and "sick and gross". My heart is broken every day by the comments I regularly hear regarding radical views on homosexuality. These people preach love and compassion to gays, and most of the time provide it to their faces, but I get to see what Christians really are like behind the curtain: a bunch of homophobic Pharisees that wouldn't know the grace and love of Jesus Christ if it kicked them in the rear.

    Piper claims that I have exchanged God for the idol of "myself". I did no such thing that day I first realized my attractions toward men. It ins't "dysfunctional idolatry". That's a choice my friend. What I'm dealing with isn't. I'm not trying to fill any emotional holes, or plug up my desire for Christ any more than you do having sex with your wife.

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  2. This is when I hear the old line "your temptation isn't the sin, it is acting on your desires that God condemns." That's great, except homosexuatliy isn't like "other sins".

    You can get rid of other sins. You can beat alcoholism over time; the desire goes away. Sex isn't like that. It stays, forever. You can't beat the desire, but you can beat the sin. Gay people can't do that. We must live with ourselves for our entire lives without expressing our most innate desires, ones shared by all of mankind.

    My Christian walk is suffering from the Christians I am surrounded by. Their judgements, their hypocrisy, their complete and total disregard for the validity of my very state of being makes me sick and frustrated to the point of madness. The way I look at it, if I still want to remain a Christian (which I do, I love Christ and the gospel message) I have two options:

    1. Continue to frustrate myself with the lies and deception associated with keeping myself closeted. I can't reveal this sin. While others can fellowship with others and strengthen each other by discussing their struggles, I must remain silent about the very thing that is hollowing out my spiritual and emotional insides.

    2. Come out (at least as one who has those desires) and become an untouchable. I go to a Christian university in the Bible belt. I would lose the respect and fellowship of every friend and family member I have. I would be a complete social outcast.

    What is not an option is changing. I have tried. I have prayed and fasted, sought Christ and cried out in repentance. Nothing works. The power of Christ is sufficient to overcome sin when true repentance is present. I am tired of being called mentally disordered, perverted, and some sort of spiritual anomaly. I am a child of God and deserve more respect that what I am getting.

    I'm sorry that this is so disorganized and non-rational. I am just so emotional right now I don't know what to say. I just want people to understand the plight and emotional trauma of a closeted gay Christian. I cannot sing the simplest of Christian songs, "Jesus loves me this I know" and mean it. That is a sad state of affairs and in my opinion, it makes Jesus vomit.

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  3. Hey Anonymous. Believe me I relate with what you say 100%. I also have struggled alone with this for most of my life. You are right the church has been handling this the wrong way for a very long time. It breaks my heart to read what you are going through all alone in secret. Your story reminds me so much of me and I know the pain and anguish first hand.

    Your right it seems this is the one sin that you cant talk about with other christians without them looking down on you and judging you. Alcholic, Drug Addict, thief, no problems. But homosexuality is different. I think the reason is the church has realized it is almost impossible to change the attraction so they choose to either ignore us or pretend its not possible to be a Christian and struggle with Same Sex Attractions. Most have no idea there is alot of us sitting right next to them in church struggling every day as they make jokes about us. It is getting a little better in some churches but for the most part there is a VERY long way to go.

    But dont lose hope! God DOES love you and me even if the church does not understand that we never choose to be like this.I think more of your friends then you would imagine would support you and love you still if you told them. One of the things Satan does to the SSA struggler is isolate us from all othe rChristians. He fills us with shame, guilt, and self loathing. This then greatly diminishes any chance for ministry to others and also makes it easier for him to tempt us since there is no accountability and no one to turn to for help and prayers.

    I just said a prayer for you. I know what you are going through and there are alot of other christians like us as well. Dont give up bro! Please feel free to email me if you ever need to talk. My email address is in my profile. Also there is an online group I am in with a bunch of other Christian guys who struggle with same sex attractions. We pray for eachother and support eachother and give and get advice. If this is something you would be interested in joining let me know and I will try to get you an invite. It helps to have a place where you can be honest about your struggles and not judged and this group is helpful for that since we all have the same burden.

    Here is a verse that has encouraged me:
    "So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while." 1 Peter 1:6

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  4. Anonymous,

    In addition to what AJ said, I wanted to add a bit of response on my own. I'll preface my comments by stating I personally am attracted to both sexes, though like you I've never been sexually active. I also do hold to conservative theological views when it comes to sexuality and thus believe heterosexual marriage is the only acceptable outlet for sexual behavior. Being that I do have feelings for women, that's much easier to say for me than it is for you, but that's the conclusion I've come to.

    I am deeply saddened and not all that surprised by the comments many Christians have about homosexuality. However, I don't completely agree with what you're saying. I do ultimately believe that same-sex attractions are a temptation, and by themselves are completely unchosen and do not constitute sin. I think the closest analogy is heterosexuality. Like homosexual temptation, heterosexual temptation is innate and unchosen. If you have a frank discussion with any married straight guy, you'll find he's constantly tempted by adultery and pornography. The fact is that everyone's experience of sexuality, gay or straight, has been marred by the Fall. Everyone is disordered. (So yes, I would say that homosexual attraction is a disorder, but only in the same sense that everyone deals with disordered desires.) And the fact is that the desire for heterosexual sin is something that doesn't ever disappear for straight people, even after marriage. If this isn't obvious to you, you've never experienced straight guys being honest with you about their temptations.

    So homosexuality is not entirely unique. I also know that desires for other sins may be innate and/or unchosen (think a child born to a druggie mother, even in the case of drugs you mentioned.) And I think it's really naive to expect *any* sort of temptation to go away completely. That can happen in some cases, but if you talk to mature Christians who are honest you'll find they have plenty of ongoing struggles. Even most former alcoholics report they can't drink even a little or they could fall back into their old ways.

    The biggest difference in my analogy with heterosexuality is of course that there is a legitimate outlet for heterosexual desires - namely, marriage. So having a lack of heterosexual desires does make for significant difficulties. I do believe that this means the Church at large needs to acknowledge the difficulties this causes, and certainly shouldn't stigmatize people who happen to deal with this rather than something else. I'd highly recommend Wesley Hill's new book _Washed and Waiting_ for a good discussion of celibacy. My friend Karen has also done some good blogging about this stuff at http://pursuegod.wordpress.com

    I should also note that homosexuality is not the only reason someone would need to live a celibate life - someone may have a disability that makes it difficult to find a spouse, or may just never find the right person. (I've known people in both these situations, and I think the difficulties are similar.)

    I don't think that anyone should condemn having the feelings, although they do usually lead to the sin of lust just as heterosexual feelings do. God certainly doesn't hate you or want to send you to hell for feelings you never chose! (Although the Bible does teach that *everyone* deserves to go to hell and it is only by Christ's sacrifice that we are saved. But homosexuality isn't different from anything else in this regard.) In short, I think homosexual sin should be treated identically to heterosexual sin, because they're really not fundamentally that different.

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  5. Also, I noticed you seemed to think you had only two options: being completely closeted (telling no one), or being completely out (making it public.) Have you thought about letting a few trusted friends, family members, or church staff know? In my experience, many people are willing to respect your confidence if you ask. If you go to a counselor such as at the school counseling center, the law requires confidentiality except under certain limited circumstances like when a life is in danger.

    You'd probably be surprised how many Christians will actually respond well to the testimony of someone dealing with homosexuality. Sometimes even the same people who tell gay jokes who are mostly just insensitive because they don't know anyone like you or I who has been open with them! In my experience, deeper fellowship happens more often than loss of respect or fellowship. Part of it is how you present yourself, though. Using the word "gay" or even "homosexual" tends to scare certain people much more than it should, and even changing the wording to "same-sex attraction" or something helps get them to listen respectfully. Also, I've in the past been very careful who I tell, although I'm starting to take a lot more risks than I used to. I actually went to a pretty conservative Christian college in the Midwest before moving to North Carolina for graduate school and go to a pretty conservative church now, and have found plenty of people in both places who were receptive and willing to listen to my story.

    I'm perfectly willing to discuss by e-mail if you'd like, and I would then feel free to include details that identify me more directly. (I typically use my real name when e-mailing about this.) There is also the Facebook group AJ mentioned.

    God's blessings in finding some peace!

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  6. AJ,

    I want to thank you for your words. You have encouraged me in ways that no one has before and I am sincerely indebted to you for your kindness. I am not quite ready to open up to even a group of fellow strugglers yet, but I will certainly remember your blog and your ideas for a later date. :D

    Neo,

    Your words have also given me things to consider. I just wanted to make a couple of things clear:

    1. I currently have no other intention than to remain celibate. Like you, I agree that homosexual sex is a sin and should be avoided.

    2. That being said, I am frustrated at the facade that I must put up on a regular basis to my family, friends, and church. I'm eighteen years old. What am I supposed to tell everyone when they ask why I don't have a girlfriend yet? Sure, I could get one, but in my opinion, that would be just as wrong as going out with a man.

    3. I. CANNOT. TELL. ANYONE. ABOUT. THIS. You live in NC, so you're close to where I am, but let me tell you, I live in a very small town in upstate SC. I go to a conservative Christian Baptist College. Here is where I am at.

    Friends- Yeah, not happening. Not a single soul would (a) understand or (b) continue to be friends with me if I told. I don't mean they wouldn't speak to me in the hallway or say hello when they pass me by, but please understand, I would be practically and untouchable when it comes to close relationships. Period. I would be a freak; people would be literally scared of me. I know because they have said these things before, and I have seen it done to others.

    Family- Once again, not happening. They will still love me, but I do not need them knowing this for three reasons. First, I just don't want them quoting Bible verses at me whenever they get the chance. Second, I don't need them scrutinizing my every move. Finally, I know how they fell about gay people (not being gay, gay people themselves) and the jokes/looks/implied disgust would just not sit well with me.

    Church- Not if I don't want to get kicked out. I attend a independent Presbyterianish church. It is kinda hard to explain, but this is the kinda church that could turn socialism into a sermon if you know what I mean. The members are nice enough people, but they deep down are racists, xenophobes and homophobes. Some of the worst comments I have heard about gay people have come from the children raised by the church leadership. They hear that stuff at home and they spew it out places without restraint. Not 10 year olds, teenagers and college students. If I let anyone know at church, they might seriously introduce a motion to excommunicate me. I can't deal with that.

    This would all be fine, if the options were have sex or don't have sex. That is easy. What isn't easy is trying to keep up the appearance that I am "straight."
    What are my options? Right now, it seems that all I can do is hide and be miserable. It is not fun, but until I can divorce myself a little further from where I am now, that's just not possible.

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  7. Anonymous,

    First of all, I'd like to apologize if my previous comments came across as just disagreeing or minimizing your difficulties. My intent was to encourage you and help you realize your struggle is not exceptionally "weird," but I re-read them and realized they kind of come across as offering some kind of easy answer. It's hard sometimes to express myself via an anonymous Internet comment rather than a face-to-face conversation or a longer chat.

    I don't want to trivialize the difficult situation you're in. Opening up is really, really difficult, especially at first. And it doesn't sound like you're in a situation with ripe opportunities to do so. I've just found that learning to be open with a few people was immensely helpful in my life. I'll be praying you'll have the kind of opportunity to talk with someone who can actually be compassionate and whose friendship with you won't change. I'd encourage you to pray and look for opportunities as you can. It won't be anywhere near easy (reading back in AJ's blog about when he first told his brother shows a lot) but through Christ it can be done. I've found for me that most of the miserableness of dealing with SSA disappeared when I did that.

    If you do open up with people from any environment like yours, avoid calling yourself "gay." Say something like "I struggle with same-sex attraction." You may have to explain yourself, but then you've divorced yourself from the "gay" stereotypes they have. I'm not saying that "gay" is never the right word, but the drawbacks really outweigh the benefits in a conservative environment. If you're talking to someone like me, on the other hand, use whatever term feels most natural to you.

    Of course that doesn't answer all the questions about "why don't you have a girlfriend?" I actually haven't had a girlfriend yet despite having significant OSA ever since puberty, and I think a lot of it boiled down to not having the courage to ask someone out. You don't have to give a full answer to anyone who asks.

    I hope this didn't just boil down into more advice if that's not what you want. But in any case, I'll be praying for you and your life.

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  8. Hey Anonymous! Glad to see you back. Ya its ok if you dont feel comfortable yet opening up to others in an online group. Its a big step so wait until you are ready. Honestly this is a big step you are taking to posting to blogs and searching out other christians online who struggle with this so way to go for taking it! Yea if you ever feel ready for such a group let me know!

    I want to comment on some of the things you mentioned to neo.

    for #2 What I have find works is to tell people that you are waiting for God to bring the right girl along if He wants you to date. This is not a lie as if God does intend for you to someday date or get married then the right girl will indeed come along! Plus you are only 18 I dont think people will be to suspicious if you are not dating. You also could say you want to focus on school for now and dont want the distractions dating brings. I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to get a GF just to fit in. Not only would that be hurtful to her but its just not the right reason to be dating.

    As for #3 well I am not in your shoes so I cant say. But it sure sounds like you are in a tough situation. I still think of least some people in your life would respond with real love and not reject you. But I think even if thats true you dont sound ready yet to risk it. I will admit it is terrifying to tell someone especially the first time! If it was not for people like Neo encouraging me I never would have told anyone.

    Maybe if you are able to change churches at some point you will feel more safe opening up to a few people in a different environment where the people dont know you already and you can be yourself rather than who you pretend to be to please them.

    Do you have any siblings? If so are you close to any of them? That could be a good choice as well to tell one of them what you struggle with when you feel ready. But it is entirely up to you and should not be rushed.

    In any event I will continue to pray for you. Know that God knows what you are going through and loves you as one of his children. I believe this struggle with SSA is a result of the Fall and some people struggle with this like others have different sin areas in their life that they have to face. I admit this does seem like one of the harder things a person could have to face in life but God must think we can handle it. It certainly has made me realize how much I need a savior and has caused me to be alot less judgmental then alot of people I know. Its just a real shame that many churches have decided to target this as some super sin when in reality its no worse than any others.

    Anyways I know it was a huge relief when I realized I was not alone in this struggle and that their were other christians out there facing the same battle. So its good that you are starting to reach out. It also shows that God is working in your life and will not abandon you!

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