"Everything has already been decided. It was known long ago what each person would be. So there’s no use arguing with God about your destiny." (Eccl 6:10, NLT)
This verse just really made me stop in my tracks and think for awhile. Did God know before I was even born that I would struggle with SSA? Obviously He did since he knows all but its an interesting thing to think about. He knew I would have this struggle but still loved me and loves me anyways. Is it possible that no matter what had happened as a child whether I had tons of male friends, felt accepted, and like "one of the guys" that I would have turned out no different since God always knew I would be the person I am? What I mean is I spend so much time thinking about the past and how I wish things had gone different. But this verse seems to say that there is no use doing that or arguing with God about your lot in life because your destiny is already decided.
Of course this brings up the whole idea of free will. If God always knew I would struggle with SSA does that mean no matter what choices I made or what choices others made to include me I still would struggle with SSA? Its interesting to think about. I doubt I will solve these deep questions any time soon. Just thinking.
Also love the last part of the verse. "So there’s no use arguing with God about your destiny." I took that to mean there is no use begging and pleading for God to change yours or my particular struggle. I cant even count the untold times I have prayed to God and cried myself to sleep asking for God to heal me of these same sex attractions. Like it says in this verse there is no use arguing with God. For whatever reason some of us struggle with SSA and its our burden to bear. Everyone has some struggle that they have and God must think that we can handle it and that it will teach us to trust in Him. If we each did not have our own particular struggle we may never learn to have this trust and our faith would not grow. Luckily God does not leave us alone to carry our burdens but helps us!
"Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” "
(Matt 11: 28-30, NLT).
So what I have to learn to do is to really give Jesus my heavy bag of burdens and let Him deal with it. I cant beat myself up so much when I fail and I have to try not to be prideful when I have success. He took all my burdens on the cross when He died for me anyways. So why do I still drag them behind me like I am chained to a boulder?
Sure this burden is still there and may be with me for life but I am starting to find some form of healing by just talking about it with others on my blog and elsewhere and not keeping it all in. It turns out God is healing me after all. Its just not in the ways I ever would have expected. But God always manages to surprise us doesn't He?
Anyways thats what I got from these verses. Whats your opinion? What do you think that Ecclesiastes 6:10 means? Do you agree with my conclusions or is my interpretation of the verse wrong?
Ecclesiastes 6:10 KJV
ReplyDeleteThat which hath been is named already, and it is known that it [is] man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he.
Other Translations of Ecclesiastes 6:10
That which hath bene, is named already, and it is knowen that it is man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier then he.
- King James Version (1611)
Whatsoever hath been, the name thereof was given long ago; and it is know what man is; neither can he contend with him that is mightier than he.
- American Standard Version (1901)
That which is, has been named before, and of what man is there is knowledge. He has no power against one stronger than he.
- Basic English Bible
That which is, has been named before, and of what man is there is knowledge. He has no power against one stronger than he.
- Darby Bible
He that shall be, his name is already called: and it is known, that he is man, and cannot contend in judgment with him that is stronger than himself.
- Douay Rheims Bible
That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he.
- Webster's Bible
Whatever has been, its name was given long ago; and it is known what man is; neither can he contend with him who is mightier than he.
- World English Bible
What [is] that which hath been? already is its name called, and it is known that it [is] man, and he is not able to contend with him who is stronger than he.
- Youngs Literal Bible
Whatsoever cometh into being, the name thereof was given long ago, and it is foreknown what man is; neither can he contend with Him that is mightier than he.
- Jewish Publication Society Bible
AJ,
There are many different translations of this verse out there, some easier to grasp than others. To think that nothing can be changed and it is all fated to be as it was destined is to leave out the possibility of change, not only for the good, but for the worse.
I try not to have such a fatalistic view of my life and feel that my choices each day can result in different outcomes. God is aware of all the multiple possibilities but since he is standing outside of time as I know it, also sees what will, is and did happen.
I what does success for you look like here spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically? After determining that, how does it line up with what you feel God is calling you to?
I like how you think, man, and love seeing the growth you are experiencing in your life. Quite a long ways in such a short time! God is good.
The two things that guide me are, 1. Reality is. and 2. I am me.
Praying for you!
Wow thanks for all the translations Daemon! Ya I agree with what you say. If there is no such thing as freewill than you could never be worse or better than you are. Guess there would not be much incentive to try and be a better Christian then would there? I was just surprised by how the verse was worded thats why it jumped out at me and made me think alot. Its a good thing though as I enjoy thinking about these things.
ReplyDeleteYa your right about God standing outside of time and being everywhere at once. Its so weird and overwhelming to think about. Makes my head want to explode trying to grasp it all. So to God he already knows the outcome of our lives since He sees our birth and our death and knows everything in between. But to us we have no idea what will happen even though God already knows so we still have freedom. Its confusing for sure. Very fun and interesting to think about though.
I have no idea what God is calling me to do with my life. I am very confused in this area and feel direction-less.
Thank for the kind words about my growth it is good to hear and is an encouragement. And of course thanks for the prayers!!
I've often struggled with the question of free will versus God's control. This is kind of how I see it at the moment.
ReplyDeleteWhen you are a young child, you have free will, but you do not have complete freedom. As a child, your main goal most of the time is to be happy and have fun, but you don't always know what is best for you. So, your parents provide limits, and not just in the form of rules. They limit your friends. They limit what you're exposed to. They provide you with specific opportunities to grow. They encourage you to develop hobbies. And, of course, they discipline you when you do things that are bad for you and give you chores that you don't want to do so that you will build character.
These opportunities, these chores, and the things they expose you to specifically limit the choices that you can make. Not every kid has the opportunity to become a classical pianist. Not every kid has the "opportunity" to discover pornography. Not every kid has the same level of horrible chores that will "make them better people". :) However, the kid still has to choose to obey the rules, still has to choose to do the chores, still has to choose to develop his hobbies, etc. The great thing, however, is that, even though most kids often choose to be lazy or disobey the rules, most of them still turn out okay. Their parents encourage them and discipline them and respond to them, and gradually they mature into responsible adults.
I think God kind of works like that. He sets the parameters, the possibilities of our lives. We will not all be emotionally stable or wealthy or popular or fit, and a lot of that is under God's control, not ours. We shouldn't envy those with different gifts, different physical resources, and different struggles. However, we choose what to do with those parameters, and we can really mess up our lives no matter what the parameters, just like good parents can have bad kids. The great thing about God, however, is that, unlike parents, he can make all things work together for our good. Our sins and our failures are not good and we should not want to do them. But, God uses our failures to teach us specific lessons and uses our successes to give us specific gifts that we can then use to serve Him in the Church and in the world. The more we stop wishing for a different life and start trusting God and seeking to serve God in our current situation and with our current gifts, the more we will discover how best we can serve God in this life.
That's my thoughts. :)
Really like your analogy Tim with God seeing us as a child and giving us some parameters. Your theory does make sense. So maybe God has multiple views of our possible futures depending on the choices we make and the sins we do?
ReplyDeleteThe great thing about God, however, is that, unlike parents, he can make all things work together for our good. Our sins and our failures are not good and we should not want to do them.
Ya that is the amazing thing! Even though in alot of ways I may have messed things up God can still and will still use my struggles for my own good to teach me about his grace, mercy, and love!
Loved your last line. I am finally getting to this point of not wishing for a life that is different. However I got to this place in my life whether its what God intended for me or because of my mistakes and sin I am here now and I really want to be grateful for what I have and not envy others. I am getting closer to the point of not wishing I had a different life. Not there yet but I am getting close.
Anyways thanks for the reply!
The Ecclesiastes passage is not actually about fate, guys. It's about God having authority over all things ("naming them") and that it's foolish to contend with an all-powerful God and doing so would only produce more vanity (which is a main theme of the book).
ReplyDeleteScripture isn't primarily about us...it's about God's saving work on our behalf. It's really about Him. Sure, it has implications for us, but saying that God's sovereignty amounts to determinism or fate is really not letting the biblical categories speak for themselves. I know that before I dove into the writings of the Reformers, I thought that's what predestination and everything amounted to...fate. And I didn't want any part of it.
But I can assure you it's way different than fate. And I'd take what Daemon said one step further and identify, based on the text, what God IS calling you to, AJ: repentance. The text identifies contending with God as being foolish and is, in fact, sinful. So repent and turn from your sin and toward the Savior who bought you with His own blood, knowing that He came to save such as you and me who have sinned against Him.
That's the good news...that the Gospel meets us in our sin and that we can know we're forgiven just as surely as Christ died for sin. :-)
Have a great weekend, everyone!
Cool thanks David! I am glad I posted about this because this passage left me with alot of questions that I would not likely have figured out on my own.
ReplyDeleteAJ, here's a chapel message from Wheaton College related to this topic that you might like. The speaker leans somewhat hyper-Calvinist, but he is a very deep Christian. Just go to this link and look for the chapel message by Dr. Mark Talbot.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wheaton.edu/wetn/chapelbestof.htm
Cool thanks Tim I will check that out for sure!
ReplyDeleteJust listened to the whole thing Tim. Wow what a powerful Testimony Dr. Talbot has. Really gave me alot to think about in my own situation as well and about the whole Free Will debate.
ReplyDeleteObviously the enemy probably meant for our SSA attractions to destroy us but God is using this struggle in my life to give me a deeper level of trust and reliance in Him that I likely would not have otherwise. Is this something God caused and planned for me? Probably not, but God did know I would end up this way so maybe since he knew in advance he has taken advantage of that fact to use it to draw me to Him. Its a little different that an injury as there is not one moment in time when the event happened that we can look back on to see what made us this way.
I obviously have to study the Bible on this issue of free will alot more. Its so interesting. I really feel as if I am learning new things all the time. It seems for the first time in my life these last few months I am really getting so much more out of my Bible reading then I used to. I dont know why that is as I have gone to church my whole life, went to a Christian school growing up etc... Just seems like everything is new to me for some reason when I read the Bible lately or I am understanding things in a clearer way than I did in the past.